Perth radar

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New Perth Radar

Postby peterperthh » Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:15 pm

Does anyone know anything about the new Perth Radar being built sometime soon?
All I can find out is information about building permits issued
by the Serpentine Council.

Id like to know how/if it will improve radar coverage for Perth. I assume
it will provide far better coverage for storms and rain on the
other side of the hills seens how it will be ontop of them rather than
having to look over them like the current radar. Hopefully might also
be able to show approacing cold fronts more accurately than the current
radar.
All in all i wouldnt expect much difference though as we have been short
changed a little and arn't getting the more capable high resolution doppler
radar (and several much smaller eastern states locations are).

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Postby SilverRain » Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:33 pm

Serpentine? Too far away from Perth. :(

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Postby Fu Manchu » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:33 pm

I'd like to see a radar placed in the wheat belt. That way a better idea of severe weather can be had.
wishful thinking I guess but farmers would gain well from it IMO.
Say at Narrogin or Merredin.

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Postby Tom M (Chaser 80) » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:57 pm

Silverain, how can Serpentine be to far from Perth for the radar? It has a 200km plus range?

When we went to the BoM for a look see, Joe mentioned that one of the main forecasting dramas, is with the strong winter fronts and the cold air tornadoes they spawn.
He was really wanting a new radar somewhere in the SW so they can warn pple about these more in advance. Maybe the relocation of the Perth radar, which he mentioned they have to do some time soon, is some kinda compromise for that? Plus the height can only be an advantage too. And a bit further south, but still with good coverage for the metro area.

Peterperth, I posed the question of doppler radar to joe, thinking it could offer some help with the detection of these cold air tornadoes, and he said that they only work well up to 100kms. That was why he would have liked another radar in the SW instead.

Tom

mattweather

Postby mattweather » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:18 pm

Actually theres another thing, if this new radar comes on, there will be 64km range too!!! :D Well said about cold air tornadoes, watch their markings on the radar (black dots) 8)

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Postby Tom M (Chaser 80) » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:26 pm

Thats it, we are not getting a doppler because its not appropriate for Perth.

As I said it would be better for a second radar to be put in the SW instead.

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Postby J23 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:16 pm

If a new radar was to be placed in the south west, Margaret River would probably be an ideal spot for it. Also it would be able to show what is happening to the west and north west of Albany, as the Albany radar is unable detect rain in that direction, which means that people in the far south west don't have any coverage at all.

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Postby peterperthh » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:58 pm

I agree with a radar in the south west, would be nice to have some more
warning of the size/rainfall/strength/position of fronts before they reach
perth.

In regards to the Radar at Serpentine, it will at least get rid of the often
frustrating gap in coverage directly around the current site..

mattweather, I dont think the 64km feature is available on the standard
radars.. but who knows, perhaps it will be? Just wont see much of the
Northern suburbs from down there on a 64km loop :p

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Postby squid » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:36 am

would you be getting 64km range aswell as 128km and 256km?

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New Perth Radar - coming soon!

Postby Tim S » Thu May 01, 2008 1:27 pm

Well I can confirm that the BoM still intend to install a new weather radar at the Serpentine site as proposed several years ago. The good news is this will mean much better coverage of both weather systems approaching the Capes and I also imagine storms over the ranges would be better covered due to the increase in altitude of the new site. The current radar at the West Perth site will be decommissioned once the Serpentine radar is fully operational. Time frame is "by the end of this year." :)

I imagine site works for the radar would be starting soon if not already, might be time to have a look around that area and look for big white towers growing from hilltops! :)
Kia Kaha, stay strong, live long and above all have fun. :)

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Postby Tom M (Chaser 80) » Thu May 01, 2008 5:05 pm

great news Tim, where/ who did find this out from??

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Postby Tim S » Fri May 02, 2008 10:08 am

The BoM's media spokesman, straight from the source. :) Incidently they were very helpful and quick to respond to my query, good work BoM! :lol:
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Postby hailstorm » Fri May 02, 2008 3:21 pm

Yeh fantastic news Tim :) Presumably one of those new Doppler radars as well :D

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Postby peterperthh » Fri May 02, 2008 9:27 pm

hailstorm wrote:Presumably one of those new Doppler radars as well :D


sadly not :( just a regular one I think (as if the commonwealth would help perth out)

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Postby Tim S » Sat May 03, 2008 9:02 am

Yeah I am thinking it will be just a normal weather radar, although I have a feeling the resolution will be better than the current one, it seems the new weather radars are capable of producing a decent 64K image. Although I have a feeling that may be part of the doppler radar, I'll have to follow that one up.

Regarding dopplers I have my doubts at how useful they are anyway, it seems to me they're are only really useful in displaying horizontal wind sheer in the atmosphere, which is something that can be determined by a convential weather radar, just as long as there is rain being detected in the area. An example of this would be the wind sheer in front of a strong cold front, you can see this quite clearly on a standard weather radar, whereas obviously on a doppler it is a bit clearer (and a lot prettier!) it doesn't really give you any better idea of the sheer profile. It is only handy when you have a severe wind sheer without precipitation, something which rarely happens in Perth, although we do get it near the Darling Scarp in a strong Easterley set up. But this effect is quite well studied and predictable though so I can understand why the government may be a bit hesitant in commiting to funding a doppler when this would be its main purpose.

Not really knowing the weather conditions around the other dopplers in Australia I can't really comment as to why they would have been installed there but I have a feeling it is probably as they experience a lot more fine weather wind sheer and turbulance than us.
Kia Kaha, stay strong, live long and above all have fun. :)

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Postby ozzie » Sat May 03, 2008 9:08 am

i wonder if this new radar will have 1 hour and since 9am rainfall just like the Melbourne radar.

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Postby Tim S » Tue May 13, 2008 12:49 pm

After a bit of Googlesearching I found the planned site for this radar, Serpentine airfield, map is here: http://www.sabc.org.au/All/AboutUs/Airfield.html
So looks as though it wont be at a higher elevation like I hoped but it should still give a fairly clear 360 degree scan. So if anyone happens to visit that area please let us know if you spot any "22.5m high cylindrical steel tower"... with "a 5.5m radome on top" of it. :)

Those interesting in reading the Serpentine council's notes on the approval process, here's the pdf, pg16-23: http://www.sjshire.wa.gov.au/uploaded/pdf/cgamminsnov06.pdf
Kia Kaha, stay strong, live long and above all have fun. :)

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Postby Tom M (Chaser 80) » Tue May 13, 2008 1:51 pm

That is really down on the plains there....really suprised that there will be no better elevation!....east it will little or no coverage due to the scarp. But I spose that is not really where they want to look.

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Postby peterperthh » Tue May 13, 2008 1:59 pm

Yeh I think it is actually lower above sea level than kings park. 30 feet or so at serpentine airfield compared to over 30 metres at kings park.

They probably just want a better view of perth itself (there is a gap over perth at the moment because thats where the radar is) and more coverage to the south west. Both of which are achieved by this location.

If Im in the area I will try take some pics! assuming there is any construction and I find it that is...

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Postby Tom M (Chaser 80) » Tue May 13, 2008 5:32 pm

OK all,
So today after reading Tims post above, I decided to do some invetigation, as I had today off due to being sick. :(
Off I went to the Serpentine Airfield to have a look.
What a strange place! anyways, I was lucky enough to speak to a fella by the name of Barry who lives on site as the night time caretaker. This is what he told me in point for as he could talk the leg off a chair.
1. the BoM have a site ready.
2. Everyone at the airfield supports the radar.
3. The big hold up is the greenies complaining about the small amount of Banksia bush that is to be cleared.
The site, as you can kind of see below is very flat...its on a small hill, well a mound. The pine trees in the ajoining block are ALL going to be cleared.
Photos have a short explaination under them.

Image
The main site
Image
looking north
Image
looking east, you can see the scarp in the distance.
Image
Looking west.
Image
Looking down the runway S/W. Gives some indication of the flatness of the area. Nice clear view for the radar.
This is the location on Google Earth
Image
Image
Note the northen pine trees.
The line of site distance is from the existing radar to the new site is 48kms

Anyways some idea for us!

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